What does this mean to you? July 13, 2007
Posted by spacemom in : Kids, Religion , trackbackAfter spending 5 days in the South, I have to say I am surprised at some of my feelings.
When you see this flag, what do you think of? Do you have a historical pride of being in the South and having separated from the national government to make your own country? Do you see racism and hatred behind it? Does it not affect you?
Personally, I felt offended by this flag everywhere. I thought of my children, my sweet Jewish girls, and how I had never thought about this before. How when I lived in Alabama (bet you didn’t know that!) I never paid attention to it much, except when there were verbal attacks on Jews (Dr. Jay and I were planning our wedding at the time). I remember hearing some people equate Jews with evil and how "they" were ruining the South by moving down. Some how I have this related to the flag now.
I saw a photo shop in my parent’s town that did the old fashioned photos. There was a display with a baby siting in front of the Dixie flag. It broke my heart to see that. Maybe it is me. Maybe it isn’t.
So I am curious what others think about this flag.
Comments»
Klan!
I cannot see that flag without seeing bigotry and hatred….and I wish I could see the other side of the argument, when people say it is about history and pride, but I can’t.
As a child who grew up with swastikas drawn on her locker and pennies thrown on her yard, I just can’t see it as anything other than ignorance.
I am German. And growing up in Germany, a lot was done to make sure we NEVER FORGET. Every child learns in painful detail about the terrible injustice that was done, about the pain and suffering that was caused by my ancestors. Today, 60 years after WWII, I, like many other Germans, am uncomfortable with people who profess to be “proud to be German” and who do or say anything that seems to imply that they think they are special because of being German.
Why am I writing this? Because I think that there is a demographic in the US who does not have similar feelings about the injustice that was done here in the US in the past. Towards the Indians, towards jewish people, towards black people (whether they are from Africa or not - I always think that “African American” is almost an insult and not a Euphemism). Toward other minorities. Who think that there is something there to be proud of. Who think that they are special.
So when I see this flag I am sad and somewhat afraid. Sad about all the people who have suffered and will suffer. And afraid that people who think they are special because they are white will continue to hurt other people, including my children (who happen not to be white).
I feel the same way as Carolyn.
It makes me sad, too. We lived in Houston all through law school and the racism there surprised me…
Here’s a perspective from a Canadian….I have no idea what this flag really means. I was told it was the flag of the South, back when the civil war took place and they wanted to separate. I have also been told that today it is a symbol of “wanting things to be the way they were”, as in segregation and white-supremacy, a symbol of redneck bigotry and hatred. But honestly, I don’t really know which it is, so I’ll be reading the comments with interest.
It makes me very uncomfortable. It smacks of racism, ignorance, bigotry, intimidation…
Why on earth would that be something to venerate?
Redneck. Racist. What else could it possibly mean anymore? Often, but not always, seen in tandem with a gun rack.
It is hard for me to see anything but the KKK, racism and segregation. When we went on a swamp tour in Slidell, LA a few years back, I was struck by the number of Confederate flags hung with pride from houses as we floated down the Pearl River. As a Jew who has lived up north his entire life, I wanted off the boat immediately. At that point, I think I would have felt safer swimming across the gator infested waters back to shore.
Hey, browsed over here from Toddlerplanet and thought I’d offer my two bits, since I actually live here in the South.
Most people here realize the Rebel flag symbolizes bigotry and hatred. Mississippi’s worthless former governor, Ronnie Musgrove, had the chance to strike the Confederate flag portion from the Mississippi State flag, and instead, he left it to a vote of its citizens. You can call that democracy in action, but I call it something else with four letters.
It’s the vocal, or viewable, perhaps(?), minority that you see hanging those flags. There are small towns and groups of people that fly it defiantly, but I suspect it’s more because they’re being told they shouldn’t, and also because they take that as being told to not have pride in their home.
Do me, and the vast majority of people in the South a favor: don’t associate us all with the actions of a few that you see. As an example: floating down the Pearl River didn’t give Herb a good view of the South. It gave Herb a good view of the people that live on the banks of the Pearl River. The fact that everyone assumes that racism is prevalent in the South doesn’t mean that it is. Racism exists in every race towards every other race in some form. Because of a few backwards idiots here, plus people who think it’s still 1960 in the South yet 2007 everywhere else, we get all the bad press. People making juvenile remarks like “redneck” and “gun rack” don’t do a bit to help.
The educated masses would LOVE to get a chance to be rid of that red and blue albatross.
Clifford,
I would not paint the South, or any region, with too broad a brush. Yes, the Confederate Flags hanging from the houses I saw on the Pearl River did leave me with a negative impression of that particular portion of Louisiana. However, it did not lead me to the belief that the entire South was indicative of those two dozen or so homes.
There are a great number of Southern artists, writers, poets and musicians who, through their art, remind us on a daily basis that not everyone who lives south of the Mason-Dixon line yearns for the old Confederacy to rise up from the ashes. That would be like assuming everyone who lives in the Pacific Northwest is a stoner, slack, coffee addict who never sees sunlight. Broad stereotypes don’t hold up.
I have to say I sort of cringe with an “oh no” attitude when I see that flag when traveling down south. It reminds me I am raising children of color in a country that is not all the time tolerant of anyone not lily white. That is sad, and uneducated, and tiring. That war was so long ago I just don’t get the interest in flying that flag. What is it that is positive and loving and accepting that comes from it?
But then again I was born in NY and just don’t get it?
Well put, Herb, and I couldn’t agree a bit more.
Broad stereotypes are what we Southerners deal with every day when communicating with people outside of the South. If I had a dollar for every time a support tech (I’m a systems analyst for a large insurance company down here) asked me a question about our culture, much like we’re a 3rd world nation or something…
As the saying goes, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
I found “D’s” comments very much of a refreshing flashback. I dated a German man, in the states for a few years on a job assignment, and when the subject of the Holicost came up he was embarrassed. He felt personally ashamed, he coudln’t discuss it, he went silent and cold. He too mentioned that growing up in Germany, the education system makes sure you never forget. So while my fieldtrips growing up were to NYC, Boston (tea party anyone?), Montreal… his were to Dachau, Auschwitz, etc.
I don’t think the US has the same respect for education about the lessons of atrocity from OUR past. Whether that’s Native americans, African Americans, or the lesser known atrocities agains the Asian populations in the early 1900’s. How many of us know about the lattre along with everything else.
The flag… I see the KKK, I envision people being hung.
There, I’ve said it.
I grew up in the northeast and thought that crap, though real, was something I could envision only through a text book. I never really saw anything but respectful diversity, boy was I mislead on the rest of the US. I moved to OHio, (dead middle between Pittsburg and Columbus), saw a KKK rally down mainstreet of where I lived.Hooded outfits and everything, I was shocked, stunned, ashamed, saddened… Moved to WV and lived there for 6 years… racism is rampant folks.
It’s real and it’s so normal it’s scary.
I live in central North Carolina…..been here 19 years since grad-school days. When my family and friends see someone waving or displaying the Conferderate flag, we cringe because we know what it typically (not always….but pretty much mostly)….and purposefully….represents: racism, sense of superiority, lack of wanting to think and live globally, disrespect, and sometimes even scary hatred. I continue to be taken aback by it everytime I see it and hope I always stay this uncomfortable with it. The flag categorically needs to come down off our government offices.
Interesting thoughts but none really address the origins ofthe flag, which had nothing at all to do with slavery. Slavery was NOT the reason why the Civil War was fought.
“The Confederate battle flag represents all Southerners and even Northern Confederates from states such as Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, and others, who supported the South and who even tried to secede from the Union and form their own nation but whose efforts for freedom were crushed by Lincoln’s troops. Confederate Indians, Hispanics, Blacks, and Whites all received Confederate pensions after the War and attended Confederate veterans’ reunions together, year after year, just as they had suffered and fought together during the War. The Confederate battle flag represents all Confederates, regardless of race or religion, and is the symbol of less government, less taxes, and the right of a people to govern themselves. It is flown in memory and honor of our Confederate ancestors and veterans who willingly shed their blood for Southern independence.”
So what do I think of when I see the Confederate flag? The Confederate soldiers who (for the most part) fought because of something they believed in.